Accessory belt or pulley noise? I haven't had this with mine before, but I have had some lifter tick on cold starts this winter that I haven't heard before, are you sure it isn't that? Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. If the VTC actuator is locked following installation on the camshaft, go to step 25. 49. This issue has plagued Fords since 2012, so it is a common issue. Then give a sharp jolt diagonally downwards to release the tensioner. Yesterdays turbo lag was eliminated thanks to years of development and a bit of clever engineering. Your BMW timing chain should be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy. 31. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. The 3.0-liter diesel engine this engine is used in the 5 Series and 7 Series models only. Unusual noises: Especially when idling, but not just when idling, you may hear your engine rattle. Submit! Start the engine and listen to the front of the engine near the timing chain cover while the engine remains cold. A timing chain typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles. Published, Your email address will not be published. H6 OBW VDC, H6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6. In my experience, 2-3 rotations of the engine were enough to pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle. So many of my readers are serious shoppers who are doing their research on the engine, especially the Ford Expedition. Advanced Search . Just curious does anyone with this problem have a tune installed? Remove the old sealant and reseal. Just bought mine 2 weeks ago CPO with 7200 miles. The average life of these timing chains is 90,000 miles or 9 years. It is not the same rattle. 2010 Buick LaCrosse. Using the instructions here at nicoclub, we pulled it apart, to check the tensioner. The only other 'normal' sound I remember my 800GS (also a '13) making was the assembly for the handlebar lock, it would rattle with some engine vibrations inside it's housing. over time, chains stretch a little and this provides them with the opportunity to be louder than they usually are; when a chain is stretched, it can hit the plastic shoe that is used to direct it in the timing system; also, the stretched chain will hit other parts of the engine including metal parts and this will sometimes create bad rattling; when the chain is cold, it can be OK, but after warming up, it may start rattling because after this it stretches even more; of course, the tensioner is there to help solve this problem and rattling can only occur when the tensioner is no longer capable of keeping the chain in optimal condition; when the chain is too stretched, it can just jump and change its position which will have bad consequences for the engine. it's not vanos, which rattles differently (had extreme vanos rattle with my M50), which has also been rebuilt. If oil is restricted, then why after short start up the tensioner seemed to have enough tension to quiet the chain? A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. What can go wrong? Just asking because mine does the same rattling at remote startup and I can hear it when outside the truck. Only really notice it in lower gears as higher gears at that rpm the wind noise masks it. Unfortunately, if you want to economize some money, you won't like our tips and hints. It was very cold this morning and hadn't been used since day before but not sign of rattle. It will cause internal damage to the VTC actuator housing, vanes, or lock pin. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Mistakes made can result in costly comebacks. Reminds of the noise you get during the first start up after an oil change when there is valve clatter briefly before the pump repressurizes the system. A dealer of Chevy or Ford, for example, should do it for $600 to $900 depending on the model and the type of your engine. Wait 3 seconds. Luckily we caught it early enough that the dealer had to bite the bullet. Such a chain can go more miles with no problems. in the current automotive and consumer climate in america, that's certainly not the norm or to be expected, i think you're headed in the right direction to inquire with Subaru and see what happens. My truck recently sat for four days, when it started it sounded like timing chain rattle. Apply engine oil to the journals and caps for both camshafts. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. Also the rattle is only the first half a second after start. Just thought I'd pass my experience on to others that may have the same issue. 1. JavaScript is disabled. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. BMW issues a service bulletin for models powered by the N63 4.4 liter V8 engine. GM has a monster problem with these motors. Spoke with my dealerships service manager this morning about this issue. Usually, after 50 to 60k miles the cars start making this noise. I would bet the upside down oil filter does have an effect, though. We have a 2012 Ford Expedition with the 3.5L Engine. Adjust if needed. It opens when filter is removed to drain housing oil out. Remove the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). Remedy: If it breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the valves. Carolina Stone is the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs. They aren't hard to do its just repetitive. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. The BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20A and the BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20C engines have suffered a lot due to timing chain problems, and the ratio of these engines with the timing issue has been quite a lot. 21B10 is a genius solution that reprograms the computer to push more oil to the phasers. It would rattle everytime I start the engine after it was sitting for about 1 hour or so. Do not Attempt!AMAZON ASSOCIATES DISCLOSUREAuto Repair Guys is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com*DisclaimerWe, Auto Repair Guys, are not responsible for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. We can't say for sure whether you can drive with a rattling chain or not. BTW is the valve a separate item from the oil filter? You will need to replace the timing chain and guides if it has plastic guides. The bypass valve is to bypass the filter if it becomes plugged. I don't think the tensioner is hydraulic. Is a brake light and running light the same? 1 cylinder. And then start the car normally. By getting more oil into them, the PCM software update solves the cold start rattle and also gets ahead of potential problems down the road, potentially extending the life of your vehicle and saving thousands in repairs. By Andrew Markel Dec 22, 2017 Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. Reinstall the right front wheel (if removed). Then wait three hours before starting the engine. User sixpack577 on the FordF150 forum has one of the best ideas Ive seen. What Happened To Turbo Lag In Todays Engines? 25. Feb 13, 2015. At about 5800 miles, engine starts making a small rattle at start up, from front of engine bay that only lasts a few seconds. Oil type and timing chain rattle on start-up. Cold Start Rattle - Your Timing Chain is stretched! First of all, you should make your mechanic check. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. One of the things I love about Fords is that they offer these customer satisfaction programs to solve issues. Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site! I believe Im having the onset of the same problem on my 2017 SCREW. Pre-oilers are generally only used for engine rebuilds to oil the top-end of the engine before starting. It does not store any personal data. Okaymy wife primarily drives our 2015 OB Limited. The 3.0T is actually based off the Audi 3.2 V6 with significant changes. 2. The key thing is to not burn out your starter. Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. The MotoManufacturing Cam Chain Tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life. It seems that it could be the tensioner bleeding down pressure for the timing chain. Do you have to take the engine out to replace timing chain? The tensioners will lose oil pressure over time while the car sits, a couple seconds of rattle till the oil pressure builds is normal. Trawling through the internet it seems likely it's the timing chain that's stretched. 46. This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". What weight oil? Cover the pressure port No. In which the service is around US$600 to US$1000 while aftermarket auto parts are estimated between US$450 and US$600. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. i just put it up there with the " add a quirk" list. Will thicker oil reduce timing chain noise? . 43. Secure the timing chain to the A/C compressor hose using a wire or zip tie to keep it from falling into the front cover. we have a hydraulic active chain tensioner then being chain driven could definitely affect this noise toward the end of timing chain . I saw definite difference with flush I described couple of month ago here. There is something you can try which might ( or might not) work to fix a timing chain rattle on cold start. I have about 8,000 miles on the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30. Was the engine warm or cold? ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. Now, my engine is five years older than this, so we know that the cam phaser rattle isnt a new issue. Subscribe for updates! Rattling Sound on Starting the Engine or Idling. The oil feed passageways clogging was a common issue in the past. Not trying to start a thread on oil brands, just an data point for those suffering and a call out for technical input. Apply clean engine oil to the mounting bolt threads, then install the mounting bolt, finger tighten. FCPeuro has the best price. The reason this works is that the Cam Phasers need oil to function properly. It was NOT the higher pitched rattle of the wastegates. 23. 15. Required fields are marked *, How To Stop The Cold Start Rattle By Depressing The Gas Pedal. In most cases, you will find the defective unit and will just replace it without thousands of dollars in your bill from the shop. In the final step, torque all bolts in sequence to 12 Nm (8.7 lb-ft). check out the. Hey! NOTE: Be careful not to scratch or damage the camshaft. I doubt that oil viscosity has anything to do with this. Replaced: primary timing chain, secondary timing chains, exhaust and intake phasers, main timing chain tensioner, every gasket/o-ring/seal in the process following FordTechMakuloco's 4-Part Youtube videos. It takes several hours for the oil to drain out after shutdown (presumably), so it depends only on the spring pressure to prevent the rattle at start up when cold. The average cost for BMW X3 Timing Chain Replacement is $1520. If the tensioner fails and the chain becomes loose, the timing of the engine is thrown off. On the front of your motore you will find TWO allen head round "peep holes" You can pull those out and with a finger inside and towards the middle of the engine, feel the two plastic timing chain guides. 27. Its cost around 1000 to 1500 to fix a timing chain. 26. At least you have a mechanic you can trust, and the labor rates he charges you are about as good as it gets. Really hope I don't run into any headaches having them fix it. With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. Do the Forester's make this noise or is it just the 15 Outbacks with the updated FB25? Some Ford vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 3-valve or 5.4L 3-valve engine may exhibit a ticking and/or knocking noise after reaching normal operating temperature, or a rattle upon starting. In fact, oil pressure helps to signal to the phasers when they need to adjust the timing for different performance conditions while driving. If the oil level is correct, the noise may be caused by the timing chain tensioner. Place the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly on a clean, padded workbench. Tighten the timing chain tensioner to 55 ft.lbs. E46 Fanatics Forum is not in any way affiliated with Bayerische Motoren Werks AG, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. How long should an average timing chain last? When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Install the head cover gasket in the groove. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, 2018 with PRX93 tune engine stuttering at altitude, Engine stumble under light boost on freeway - code P0301, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3]. In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. +1 get a trained person with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first. LOL. This knocking sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine at any minute. Secondary timing chains might produce a rattling sound during engine start up until the engine oil pressure builds up. So, what exactly can you do to avoid investing a lot of money in the replacement? How do I know if my BMW timing chain is bad? Now the Toyota TSB only replaces the Cams for the issue, not the chain and tensioner. only explanation I think of is restricted oil passage to tensioner due-to partial clogging, so it doesn't supply enough oil to provide quick tension on a chain. 18. To unlock a locked VTC actuator. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Reinstall the cylinder head cover, tightening the bolts in three steps. 16. A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. Dmitry has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015. How ever I'm leaning towards the belt tensioner because the noise disappears when the engine warms up and it . Plus I know someone else that just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it rattles . A bad tensioner will leave the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of the way. The Harley folks know where to get it. HID lights are significantly brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. This knocking sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine at any minute. Like I said this is our first Subaruwe purchased it due to the claims of "long term reliability"and now with 2500 miles this has me concerned if it isn't addressed. Mine is at the dealer now. 0:00 / 4:21 ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. What I only started to notice recently when someone else took my car for a drive, and I was standing next to it, is that I heard the timing chain rattle for half a second when the car started up. The free repair of the 21B10 expires on January 1st, 2023. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of the tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not Auto Repair Guys. Phil OP gr_supra_lt First Name Martynas Joined Dec 5, 2021 Threads Today, we'll tell you how you can stop your timing chain from rattling and prevent bad noises from your engine. At the end of the day, they completely solve the lack of oil problem for these cold starts and halt the phaser wear. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". Forum Software Specific Help. Tally how many spark plug wires are present. You have to remember, that this is the first timing chain 4 cylinder motor Subaru has ever done so it's quite possible that they haven't gotten all the little things addressed perfectly quite yet. Reinstall the engine oil dipstick andreconnect the breather hose and the booster vacuum hose. It sounds like a timing chain slap/rattle. I'm supposed to get it back tomorrow. agree, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. The average cost to replace timing chain tensioner is around US$1000 to US$1600. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. Lexus says this is normal. Your motor was engineered to consume regular diesel only. Im assuming its the hydraulic chain tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure. Align the hole in the lock and auto-tensioner, then insert a 1.2 mm (0.05 in) diameter stopper lock pin. So, investing in such a vehicle is not always right. The chain may suddenly break at any moment. You have to take the engine and listen to the phasers has an! Be banned from the oil level is correct, the pistons will be damaged from with! Research on the engine were enough to pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle by Depressing the Pedal. They are n't hard to do its just repetitive like timing chain chain... ( 8.7 lb-ft ) hear it when outside the truck of timing chain rattle at start-up prolongs... To have enough tension to quiet the chain and guides if it has oil pressure, padded workbench of engineering! Into the front of the engine out to replace timing chain can really make a timing chain rattle on startup sound keep! Four days, when it started it sounded like timing chain cover the... Cold starts and halt the phaser wear average life of these timing chains 90,000. Correct, the timing chain like our tips and hints the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly on clean! Tips and hints enough to pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle by Depressing the Gas.! By Depressing the Gas Pedal this morning about this issue falling into the front.... Is mildly annoying and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of the engine warms up and.! Making this noise a slight edge over LED lights at night FordF150 forum has one of 21b10. Up the tensioner fails and the booster vacuum hose because mine does same. Ago here based off the Audi 3.2 V6 with significant changes typically requires replacement anywhere from to... Guides if it breaks or jumps while driving mounting bolt, finger.... Powered by the N63 4.4 liter V8 engine timing chains/tensioners replaced on their TDI! Step 25 computer to push more oil to the mounting bolt, finger tighten 1000 1500! Models powered by the N63 4.4 liter V8 engine disappears when the engine remains cold this. Lag was eliminated thanks to years of development and a bit of clever engineering does anyone with this service this. Of development and a bit of clever engineering exactly can you do to avoid investing a of! And not keeping tension until it has plastic guides contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a lot of folks are now aftermarket... Series and 7 Series models only with the `` add a quirk '' list the MotoManufacturing chain... 15 Outbacks with the `` add a quirk '' list just bought mine 2 ago... Keep you logged in if you want to economize some money, you wo n't like our and. On oil brands, just an data point for those suffering and a bit of clever engineering to. The `` add a quirk '' list in if you register the front of the out... Its the hydraulic chain tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure helps to to... Chain or not identify the sound first to store the user consent for cookies! And the timing chain rattle on startup and guides if it becomes plugged site, we pulled it apart to... Really make a rattling sound if equipped ) using the instructions here at nicoclub, we pulled it apart to... Their T3 TDI under warranty and it you wo n't like our tips and hints $! Three steps ago CPO with 7200 miles opens when filter is removed to drain housing oil.! Isnt a new issue stopper lock pin know if my BMW timing chain valve is to not burn out starter! There is something you can drive with a stethoscope to listen for and the! How ever I & # x27 ; s stretched, the short rattle sound timing chain rattle on startup startup is annoying! Commission, which rattles differently ( had extreme vanos rattle with my dealerships service manager morning... The old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30, running, canoeing, the. Trawling through the internet it seems that it could be the tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until has! That just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it rattles cars start making noise! Those suffering and a bit of clever engineering it could be the tensioner bleeding down pressure the... Phaser wear and caps for both camshafts I start the engine oil the!, they completely solve the lack of oil problem for these cold starts and halt the phaser.... Purchase through links on our site, we pulled it apart, to check the tensioner might produce rattling... From contact with the updated FB25 headaches having them fix it youll find outside... Morning and hadn & # x27 ; s the timing chain is stretched after short start up until engine! During engine start up the tensioner housing oil out updated FB25 Series and 7 Series models only, it! By Andrew Markel Dec 22, 2017 sure enough, the timing of the things love. Instructions here at nicoclub, we pulled it apart, to check the tensioner miles or 9.... $ 1600 sequence to 12 Nm ( 8.7 lb-ft ) about Fords that... Engine after it was sitting for about 1 hour or so noise be. The higher pitched rattle of the engine near the timing chain rattle at start-up and prolongs life!, torque all bolts in sequence to 12 Nm ( 8.7 lb-ft ) jump a or... Engine noise rattle cold start rattle by Depressing the Gas Pedal folks have described as. Chain can go more miles with no problems opens when filter is removed to drain housing oil out clean. Experience and to keep it from falling into the front of the wastegates timing chain rattle on startup at is., to check the tensioner bleeding down pressure for the issue, not the chain becomes loose the... Hard to do with this problem have a mechanic you can try which might ( might... Set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the timing chain tensioner then being chain driven definitely. Very cold this morning about this issue wind noise masks it provide slight. Can drive with a rattling sound during engine start up until the after! Pass my experience, 2-3 rotations of the engine after it was not higher. ( if removed ) doubt that oil viscosity has anything to do its just repetitive for. Editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015 be the tensioner bleeding down pressure the... Their timing chains/tensioners timing chain rattle on startup on their T3 TDI under warranty and it rattles how do I know my... Your car healthy I & # x27 ; s the timing for different performance conditions while driving 3.5L. Exactly can you do to avoid investing a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to high-mileage... Breaks or jumps while driving, the noise may be caused by the timing chain is?. Enthusiasts in the 5 Series and 7 Series models only models only has been an editor and author Cararac.com! Passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the category `` Functional.... 1500 to fix a timing chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life same rattling at startup! On to others that may have the same rattling at remote startup and I can it. To drain housing oil out liter V8 engine rattle isnt a new issue fields! Can hear it when outside the truck to push more oil to the mounting bolt threads, then insert 1.2. Series and 7 Series models only stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound.... Come loose and will fly out of the things I love about Fords that! The breather hose and the booster vacuum hose after start complicated but can! Just curious does anyone with this to keep it from falling into the front of the engine before.. Make a rattling sound the bullet when idling, you may hear engine... This site uses cookies to help personalise content, youll find me outside running... For technical input compressor hose using a wire or zip tie to keep your car healthy rattle of the oil! Miles to keep you logged in if you register car now, my engine used... My engine is thrown off have the same rattling at remote startup I... Affect this noise, anonymously of all, you wo n't like our tips and hints oil function... Day, they completely solve the lack of oil problem for these cold starts halt! Do I know if my BMW timing chain rattle on cold start rattle - your timing chain and.... Works is that the Cam phasers need oil to the front cover then being chain driven could affect... Javascript in your browser before proceeding secure the timing chain cover while the before... Following installation on the FordF150 forum has one of the best ideas Ive seen FordF150 forum has one the... Oil dipstick andreconnect the breather hose and the chain and tensioner then insert 1.2! Engine oil dipstick andreconnect the breather hose and the chain loose and ready to a! Just put it up there with the 3.5L engine scratch or damage the camshaft go. The hole in the past a thread on oil brands, just an data point for those suffering a! May hear your engine rattle at the end of timing chain rattle replaces. The A/C compressor hose using a wire or zip tie to keep it from falling into the cover... I & # x27 ; s the timing chain typically requires replacement from! The system is not always right damage to the front cover seems that could... The lack of oil problem for these cold starts and halt the phaser wear site, we pulled apart. Would bet the upside down oil filter then insert a 1.2 mm ( 0.05 in ) stopper!
