John MacArthur was able to summarize Furtick as a minister with one word: unqualified. PS Im a huge Chandler fan over here. Chandler, a Reformed evangelical pastor, spoke as a guest speaker at Elevation last Friday, the third night of the Code Orange Revival. To be really honest, I find it very difficult to muster up any Christian love for you when you respond to people in this way, though I do recognise that this is something I need Gods help with and forgiveness for. (At this point I am of course aware of the same danger for myself and it certainly does act as a warning to me! [20] The event featured a number of speakers who argued for cessationist theology and strongly critiqued the Charismatic Movement. I have a suspicion that much of the health and wealth teaching which is plaguing much of the church in Africa, Asia and South America is primarily an export from the US, with perhaps a little help from Europe, (all in the name of spreading the gospel). [18] He believes that scripture is inerrant and infallible because it is "the Word of God" and that God cannot lie. Outwith a Southern US culture it makes no sense and Im not sure that for many of my Southern friends it makes any sense either. Have mercy! The biggest threat to the church comes not from fundamentalist atheists or those of another religion, it comes from within. If not why do you feel in a position to judge? Im afraid I have had more than enough of this kind of depressing legalism and self-righteousness pride(and before you jump in yes I admit I can all too easily be the same).. At the risk of over-blogging (I dont want to be a bore), have you seen this just the introduction. It can only harm true Gospel work, and promote worldliness in the churches. And if you want classic legalism try this Truly converted young believers have an inborn instinct to turn away from their previous worldly music and dress styles. John Fullerton MacArthur Jr. (born June 19, 1939) is an American pastor and author known for his internationally syndicated radio program Grace to You. Jenna Ellis,the churchs attorney,tweeted about the settlement. Dear David, But there is one criticism that I want to deal with in finishing. point taken). [14] In 1986, he was made President of the new Master's Seminary. Will you not come and revive us? . Ive only just seen the comments you wrote yesterday, Sunday, and again today. He is a ministry collaborator with TDJakes health and wealth and modalist ministry, he collaborates with Joel Osteens humanistic ministry and with Brian Hustons new wave prophecy ministry. Matt Chandler is an excellent example of how the gospel should be preached I cant comment on his lifestyle because I dont know it do you? Where is the blessed self-forgetfulness? But again I explained why I chose Dallas. But in this instance let me assure you I am not mocking. So issuing a challenge to either support them or decry them is meaningless. When asked why he marketed his book (or to be more accurate why the church paid thousands to market his book), he was unapologetic, if he didnt believe the message he wouldnt market it. It is still priced as such on my Amazon feed.thankfully someone pointed me to another link which I have now used to buy the book for a couple of pounds on Kindle. "[43] Moore responded to this stance by stating on her Twitter account, "I did not surrender to a calling of man when I was 18 years old. The truth is whether it is a mega church pastor in the US, or a small church pastor in Scotland, it is not OUR church, it is HIS. So when I see money, resources and people being diverted into what appear to be personal vanity projects, branding and corporate Christianity, I weep, am angry and cry out to the Lord. New Artificial Intelligence Program ChatGPT Generates Concern: A Liberal Bias? I challenged that because I regard these as serious charges and not to made lightly against a Christian brother. This is way more than urging caution, as you later suggested. Reiterating his stance on 1 Timothy 2:12, he went on to state, "There is no case that can be made biblically for a woman preacher. Submitted by escamp on August 31, 2015 - 3:04pm. I'm a bank robber. Cho brought letters to the elders and MacArthur who ultimately told him he needed to "walk back" his findings if he wanted to remain an elder. Each person will answer to God for themselves. 1) You came on my blog page and accused Matt Chandler of not being a good example of how the gospel should be preached and lived. Not on Amazon it aint! [45] His major contention was that there was no justification for closing down churches over a disease with 94% survival rate according to misinterpreted data from the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). I know in theory you agree with He must increase, I must decrease as do I. David, you try very hard to always get the last word and I knew that the question you asked was loaded. More here: https://mrayton.wordpress.com/tag/john-macarthur/, Thanks very helpfulalthough I think that the money and the me focus are a key part of the false teaching. It has that effect on people to go from 14 to 20,000 so go sit underneath the ministry until you can see what he sees. G White had stated that Matt Chandler was not a good example of teaching or living and then went on to pass on gossip about a particular discipline case in the Village Church. 2023 The Christian Broadcasting Network, Inc., A nonprofit 501 (c)(3) Charitable Organization. I kind of dreaded this type of response. You are aware of them as you demonstrated when writing about Mr Furtick. I will reply to them briefly. [2] He is currently the chancellor emeritus of The Master's University in Santa Clarita and The Master's Seminary. The Amazon website only has E S Williams book on sale as 30:08.! In 1969, after graduating from Talbot Theological Seminary, John came to Grace Community Church. Matt. Sums it all up. If he is doing wrong it will come out in the wash but just to hate on a pastor because he has money is stupid. So far there has been no evidence given for assertion. But we must not quote our own books in sermons as far as possible! In the sermon above Stephen lets out a wee quip at the beginning when responding to some criticism go start your own church. He spoke for an hour without notes and held his audience completely in the palm of his hand he is a brilliant orator using all the tricks of the trade. As for your other points, Matt Chandlers church eventually acted only after a number of Christian magazines and websites had highlighted their initial inaction. (By the way I would suggest that you learn what is name is). Haters will hate This is a classic example of 1 Timothy 5:13 . All I would say is that there was no irrational, ranting, preaching anywhere in it. If we believe that the message in our books is from God, and we feel it so strongly, then we dont really need to promote it, do we? issued his own declaration against the county, John MacArthur Warns Christians to Stop Making 'Alliances With Satan' in Remarks on Religious Liberty, Falsely Accused: John MacArthur's Grace Community Church 'Cleared of COVID-19 Outbreak', but Battle Rages On, 'It's Tyranny': Pastor MacArthur Will Get His Day in Court, Fighting CA Shutdown of Churches, Historic Win: John MacArthur Claims Victory in Lawsuit Over Church Restrictions, After Asbury Shutters Revival Services, Outpouring Moved to Lexington Arena: See Full Video Here, 'I Prayed in the Name of Jesus, and He Answered': Heroes Rescue 17,000 While 'Saving Aziz' in Afghanistan. 1) There is only One only speaks the truth and it aint Steven Furtick. [21][22], MacArthur argues that modern "visions, revelations, voices from heavendreams, speaking in tongues, prophecies, out-of-body experiences, trip to heaven, anointings, miracles all false, all lies, all deceptions attributed falsely to the Holy Spirit." Im sure with a church of such a size these issues are found amongst some, and appropriate discipline and loving correction are needed. The trouble is that these churches are so massive and wealthy that they can afford to send their pastors all over the world, exporting their dodgy theology and even dodgier ecclesiology. 5) Yes the legalism one still stands. IMHO he totally manipulated the emotions of his audience and used the scriptures in an inappropriate way. Its not that difficult to grow large congregations which teach heresy if you think size is an indication of faithfulness then why are you not a Muslim, a Mormon or a Moonie?! Opinion Preston Clegg. That would indeed be ridiculous, but it is not my position and it is therefore wrong of you to argue as though it were. John MacArthur. G White this is the mega church you are setting up as an example in opposition to Matt Chandler? There is nothing that makes me believe in God and the Gospel more than the church in all its beauty, and there is nothing makes me doubt more than the church in all its ugliness. The writer of Hebrews 12:14 states frankly that only those who continue living holy lives will enter the Lord's presence." When people are being led astray genuine believers must stand up challenge and expose. False teachers and those who allow the Word of God to be compromised are like a cancer in the church; some who preach flat out heresy are like the aggressive cancer and are easy to spot quickly but others who compromise a bit here and turn a blind eye there are akin to the slow growing tumour thats often not picked up until great damage is done. Truth in love. I wasnt doing that either which a plain reading of the text will confirm. Your lack of apology (at very least regarding your amazon remarks) has only served to highlight the arrogance and childishness that you displayed in your replies. Hardly the same as Furticks message! Since then I have occasionally listened to a sermon, read articles and heard news programes, and watched as this Southern Baptist church has grown to a reported 20,000 plus. I hope this mature and open enough for you! yes it was dishonest of you to misrepresent my position as some pastors are untouchable. Marantha! I have nothing to be jealous of as regards Furtick. And after 63 years of sacrificial kindness to our city, to be repeatedly threatened with court-ordered efforts to shut Grace Community Church down when no one is sick reveals an inexplicable preference for a mostly harmless virus over the life-enriching and necessary fellowship of the church., As for MacArthurs own battle against COVID-19, the 82-year-old pastor was absent from the pulpit on Dec. 27, 2020. I note you dont answer my questions about Dallas Baptist Church. So it wasnt all bad. I repeat again that I am aware of the failings of the mega church system and celebrity pastors. Stephen Furtick I just listened (lots of fast-forwarding) to a talk he gave at the New Spring church titled Sun Stand Still (which I think relates to one of his books). Then there is the whole question of what the church is about. Can we in the UK stop copying these kind of churches? The Bad Sadly, whilst every church has the bad, because we are all sinners and therefore infect any structure or organization we are part of, there are sometimes churches that go much further and wander away to the extent that one can hardly call them a church at all. My point was that its not only out and out heretics, such as McKenna, who are a danger to the church. But, thank God, I have been able to study the bible for 50 years and, although I acknowledge that I have probably only scratched the surface of the riches of His grace, I do not recognise Furticks message as balanced and biblical. One expression of faith creates refugees; the other resettles them. New Calvinism quenches that desire, and true dedication to a distinctive Christian life.. (Genaro Molina / Los Angeles Times via Getty Images), Fox News Flash top headlines for January 3. This has become an increasing generational divide, where self help and selfishness mixed with weird legalism has been manufactured, packaged, and sold as faith. Anyone at least you have persuaded me to read the book I hope it is not a waste of good time! [9] In 1963, he was granted a Masters of Divinity from the Bible Institute of Los Angeles's new Talbot Theological Seminary, in La Mirada, California, with honors. Your comment about owning churches is actually ban on the mark. "[7][8] MacArthur followed in his father's footsteps to enroll at the fundamentalist Bob Jones College from 1957 to 1959. John MacArthur is the pastor of Grace Community Church in SunValley, California, a neighborhood in Los Angeles. [18] Furthermore, he believes that we are obliged to render full submission to scripture above all else and that "[t]o mishandle the Word of God is to misrepresent the One who wrote it. But I find it astonishing that you cite it here in a massive church (and smaller churches) there are bound to be people who are sex abusers and the church will not always handle that well. So I was pleased to see the topic addressed here, particularly as there is another story breaking about Mr Furtick in North Carolina even as I write this. The news clip above catalogues the controversy about his $1.8 million new build house caused. I would urge you to reread the comments by G White and your own responses to them before prayerfully replying. [36] Speaking about evolutionary theory, he writes that Christians "ought to expose such lies for what they are and oppose them vigorously." Its a nasty wee trick to try and shut someone up by complaining that they always try and have the last word if they reply then of course you are proved right and can feel self-justified. Im not sure though why I should apologise for my Amazon remarks? But again, whilst it is not my style, I dont see why it cant be done well, reverently and to the glory of God. what evidence do you have for that?). The great thing about the Village Church is that they recognised that they had not handled it well and apologised. Do we really believe that the Holy Spirit is incapable of working, without us chiding things along? For me there is no doubt that some of Scotlands independent churches and ministries, need to be investigated re their finances..question is who does it?. And there are some well-liked denominations and networks of churches on Facebook pages too: john macarthur on elevation church. as there are with me. Powered and implemented by FactSet Digital Solutions. We are committed to delivering quality independent Christian journalism you can trust. Given that you were speaking in the context of my remarks about Chandler, your comments were clearly a warning about him and a warning that his teaching was like a slow growing cancer. In 1960, after a year off, he was accepted to the Free Methodist Churchs Los Angeles Pacific College, where in his senior year he observed two games of football, going on field once for one play (see 1962 yearbook statistics). He is a ministry collaborator with . Your reference to Isis was, in my opinion, ill-judged given recent events. And whilst there are some who have a tremendously positive influence, I suspect that the majority do more harm than good. 3) There is no point 3) other than it is a demonstration of your setting up a straw man in the hope you will have something to argue against. This following sermon was full of what can only be called psychobabble. You state, Name calling really doesnt constitute argument does it? and yet you have no problem with calling me dishonest. Firstly in the teaching. Do they not see the danger of this? David, once again you are making assertions that do not stand scrutiny. 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